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	<title>Comments on: Wikipedia, Cleanfeed &amp; Filtering</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/</link>
	<description>Internet Censorship Explorer</description>
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		<title>By: PA</title>
		<link>http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/comment-page-1/#comment-255269</link>
		<dc:creator>PA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nartv.org/?p=554#comment-255269</guid>
		<description>@4, nart said, “Are saying that the IWF analysts cannot tell the difference between Wikipedia and a site devoted to delivering child porn that dynamically changes the paths to the images to avoid filtering?”

That is a distinct possibility.  And, I’m not referring to the importance of applying a process consistently, without fear or favour.  At the start of this year, when I first had a go at contributing to Wikipedia, I was perplexed at the use of the hostname upload.wikipedia.org.  In all the years I’ve been using computers, the convention has been that the name ‘upload’ is reserved for an area that has special properties with regard to uploading – normally for the temporary storage of files.  It’s the directory on an FTP server that the anonymous account can write to.  It can be the directory on a photo printing service that doesn’t have a quota, so you can build up a temporary print job of any size.  As a subdomain, it’s normally the access point for maintenance of a website.  Location names with the word upload in them are not usually intended to be a way of permanently referring to something.

The IWF couldn’t ask the Wikimedia Foundation how their websites work.  Do the IWF have the time or expertise to perform their own technical analysis of each website hosting a potentially illegal image?  I have no idea why they didn’t at least attempt to block both the page and the image.  Some of the URLs on the blocklist with image extensions could be there because they are the exact URLs as submitted by members of the public.  It has become clear to many that the IWF’s procedures need to be revised.  Maybe the work needs to be brought within a UK police force, so that it will be possible to call on more resources to make better decisions and to give those decisions greater legitimacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@4, nart said, “Are saying that the IWF analysts cannot tell the difference between Wikipedia and a site devoted to delivering child porn that dynamically changes the paths to the images to avoid filtering?”</p>
<p>That is a distinct possibility.  And, I’m not referring to the importance of applying a process consistently, without fear or favour.  At the start of this year, when I first had a go at contributing to Wikipedia, I was perplexed at the use of the hostname upload.wikipedia.org.  In all the years I’ve been using computers, the convention has been that the name ‘upload’ is reserved for an area that has special properties with regard to uploading – normally for the temporary storage of files.  It’s the directory on an FTP server that the anonymous account can write to.  It can be the directory on a photo printing service that doesn’t have a quota, so you can build up a temporary print job of any size.  As a subdomain, it’s normally the access point for maintenance of a website.  Location names with the word upload in them are not usually intended to be a way of permanently referring to something.</p>
<p>The IWF couldn’t ask the Wikimedia Foundation how their websites work.  Do the IWF have the time or expertise to perform their own technical analysis of each website hosting a potentially illegal image?  I have no idea why they didn’t at least attempt to block both the page and the image.  Some of the URLs on the blocklist with image extensions could be there because they are the exact URLs as submitted by members of the public.  It has become clear to many that the IWF’s procedures need to be revised.  Maybe the work needs to be brought within a UK police force, so that it will be possible to call on more resources to make better decisions and to give those decisions greater legitimacy.</p>
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		<title>By: nart</title>
		<link>http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/comment-page-1/#comment-255125</link>
		<dc:creator>nart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nartv.org/?p=554#comment-255125</guid>
		<description>For more see:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/2008-December/085789.html

and

http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2008/12/11/technical-aspects-of-the-censoring-of-wikipedia/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more see:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/2008-December/085789.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/2008-December/085789.html</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2008/12/11/technical-aspects-of-the-censoring-of-wikipedia/" rel="nofollow">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2008/12/11/technical-aspects-of-the-censoring-of-wikipedia/</a></p>
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		<title>By: nart</title>
		<link>http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/comment-page-1/#comment-255120</link>
		<dc:creator>nart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nartv.org/?p=554#comment-255120</guid>
		<description>The IWF analysts determine whether to block an entire website or an individual page depending on the context. There is a choice on the part of the analyst with how fine grain the blocking should be based on the context.If the URls to the images are dynamic etc... then the analyst may use his/her discretion.

(BTW, SecureComputing is currently blocking only the URL to the image, not the full Wikipedia page).

@PA - Are saying that the IWF analysts cannot tell the difference between Wikipedia and a site devoted to delivering child porn that dynamically changes the paths to the images to avoid filtering?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The IWF analysts determine whether to block an entire website or an individual page depending on the context. There is a choice on the part of the analyst with how fine grain the blocking should be based on the context.If the URls to the images are dynamic etc&#8230; then the analyst may use his/her discretion.</p>
<p>(BTW, SecureComputing is currently blocking only the URL to the image, not the full Wikipedia page).</p>
<p>@PA &#8211; Are saying that the IWF analysts cannot tell the difference between Wikipedia and a site devoted to delivering child porn that dynamically changes the paths to the images to avoid filtering?</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/comment-page-1/#comment-255087</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nartv.org/?p=554#comment-255087</guid>
		<description>&quot;But why didn’t they just block access to the specific URL of the offending image?&quot;

My *impression* from the garbled things they&#039;ve said, is that they&#039;re used to dealing with images where URLs have tracking data in the file path, hence &quot;specific URL&quot; is variable. If you look at sophisticated spam in HTML, you can see what I *conjecture* is their reasoning. So they block the most static-looking way of accessing the image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But why didn’t they just block access to the specific URL of the offending image?&#8221;</p>
<p>My *impression* from the garbled things they&#8217;ve said, is that they&#8217;re used to dealing with images where URLs have tracking data in the file path, hence &#8220;specific URL&#8221; is variable. If you look at sophisticated spam in HTML, you can see what I *conjecture* is their reasoning. So they block the most static-looking way of accessing the image.</p>
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		<title>By: PA</title>
		<link>http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/comment-page-1/#comment-255086</link>
		<dc:creator>PA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nartv.org/?p=554#comment-255086</guid>
		<description>There is good technical reason for blocking pages and not individual images.  With dynamic HTML, either client-side or server-side, the URL for the image could change periodically or even every time the page is accessed.  Those responsible for creating the blocklist can’t be expected to know how each website works or which ones are the ‘good guys’ and wouldn’t do something like that.  The immutable rule will be to block the URL for the page – that’s most likely to be static and linked to from elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is good technical reason for blocking pages and not individual images.  With dynamic HTML, either client-side or server-side, the URL for the image could change periodically or even every time the page is accessed.  Those responsible for creating the blocklist can’t be expected to know how each website works or which ones are the ‘good guys’ and wouldn’t do something like that.  The immutable rule will be to block the URL for the page – that’s most likely to be static and linked to from elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gerard</title>
		<link>http://www.nartv.org/2008/12/08/wikipedia-cleanfeed-filtering/comment-page-1/#comment-254910</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nartv.org/?p=554#comment-254910</guid>
		<description>I hope it&#039;s not too off-topic to note here that (a) we&#039;re an educational charity (b) we live off public donations (c) we have a &lt;a href=&quot;http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;funding drive&lt;/a&gt; on right now :-)

We have no money to spend on expensive legal assistance on issues like this. (We do have &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Godwin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mike Godwin&lt;/a&gt;, the world&#039;s most famous Internet lawyer, as our general counsel, which is just unbelievably cool and very effective.) So all we have is people talking about these issues and giving us their spare bucks to keep the sites running. Thank you :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope it&#8217;s not too off-topic to note here that (a) we&#8217;re an educational charity (b) we live off public donations (c) we have a <a href="http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate" rel="nofollow">funding drive</a> on right now :-)</p>
<p>We have no money to spend on expensive legal assistance on issues like this. (We do have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Godwin" rel="nofollow">Mike Godwin</a>, the world&#8217;s most famous Internet lawyer, as our general counsel, which is just unbelievably cool and very effective.) So all we have is people talking about these issues and giving us their spare bucks to keep the sites running. Thank you :-)</p>
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