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	<title>Comments on: Reality &amp; The Great Firewall</title>
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		<title>By: Dave W-F</title>
		<link>http://www.nartv.org/2004/10/14/reality-the-great-firewall/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave W-F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The big mama phenomenon is of interest, but as you say, the scope and method of filtering/surveillance is worth questioning. As you say, the manual (human) &quot;real-time message deletion&quot; sounds exaggerated, due to the unfeasibility of screening every message; not only would it require interventionary access to Yahoo or whatever chat service was hosting the conversation, but it would require extraordinary amounts of man-power and time; it would introduce untold latency into the chat service as every message would have to be screened before being distributed - how else could this &quot;deletion&quot; occur? - and the us.

What may be more believable, based on pre-existing evidence, is that China&#039;s filtering technology may employ some sort of protocol-sensitive snooping. They can and do watch HTTP GET requests and disrupt TCP connections based on data collected (keywords); doing the same for chat services would be only moderately more difficult. Certainly for mediums such as Yahoo!, disrupting the connection between central chat server and individual client saying undesirable things would be trivial. &quot;Big mama&#039;s&quot; warning users sounds farfetched but is indeed possible if the traffic is being monitored. And this could theoretically be done at any level, either by the chat server itself or somewhere in between client and server. In other words, given what we know about how they filter the web, this is what&#039;s possible and plausible, and it is important, as you say, that researchers, journalists and activists make a clear distinction between possible, plausible, and true, the latter being both dangerous and harmful.

I agree that theorizing about what might be happening is a completely unproductive pursuit, and until there is empirical data on the subject, making claims about the scope and manner of surveillance/filtering of chatrooms is harmful to those of us seeking facts or trying to affect change. Perpetuating untrue/unconfirmed myths or creating new ones dilutes the facts and weakens the anti-censorship position.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big mama phenomenon is of interest, but as you say, the scope and method of filtering/surveillance is worth questioning. As you say, the manual (human) &#8220;real-time message deletion&#8221; sounds exaggerated, due to the unfeasibility of screening every message; not only would it require interventionary access to Yahoo or whatever chat service was hosting the conversation, but it would require extraordinary amounts of man-power and time; it would introduce untold latency into the chat service as every message would have to be screened before being distributed &#8211; how else could this &#8220;deletion&#8221; occur? &#8211; and the us.</p>
<p>What may be more believable, based on pre-existing evidence, is that China&#8217;s filtering technology may employ some sort of protocol-sensitive snooping. They can and do watch HTTP GET requests and disrupt TCP connections based on data collected (keywords); doing the same for chat services would be only moderately more difficult. Certainly for mediums such as Yahoo!, disrupting the connection between central chat server and individual client saying undesirable things would be trivial. &#8220;Big mama&#8217;s&#8221; warning users sounds farfetched but is indeed possible if the traffic is being monitored. And this could theoretically be done at any level, either by the chat server itself or somewhere in between client and server. In other words, given what we know about how they filter the web, this is what&#8217;s possible and plausible, and it is important, as you say, that researchers, journalists and activists make a clear distinction between possible, plausible, and true, the latter being both dangerous and harmful.</p>
<p>I agree that theorizing about what might be happening is a completely unproductive pursuit, and until there is empirical data on the subject, making claims about the scope and manner of surveillance/filtering of chatrooms is harmful to those of us seeking facts or trying to affect change. Perpetuating untrue/unconfirmed myths or creating new ones dilutes the facts and weakens the anti-censorship position.</p>
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